• Occ-Cast Episode 4 featuring Kieren Perrow

WSL Commissioner and former CT athlete Kieren Perrow sits down with Occy to talk big wave surfing, the pain of making a critical mistake in a heat and how Kieren balances the pressures of running the WSL and being a good father.

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Full audio transcript -

0:02so here we are for the fourth episode of the outcast and now i am lucky enough to

0:19have with me Karen per hour the Commissioner of the wsl long time so if

0:25that was on to her and thanks for coming Karen thanks ox great to be here

0:31yeah great were in Tahiti obviously i wear it on the first day the waiting

0:35period for the billabong pro but it's not on tonight

0:40it's not on tonight small you had a couple service I didn't you did yeah it

0:44was a this morning three years plus twice about this morning and was a

0:49little wobbly and we're this morning

0:51yeah our direction in this world and yeah yeah not like real Joker now know

0:56that fun still

0:58and she'll also be the water out there yeah it is nice it was nice to look back

1:01at their in the mountains that isn't so good

1:05that's all you want to do to make you sorry you can catch a wave and just

1:07pretend you're in a barrel yeah and aliens and you can I look it's just

1:12something about being on the water here it's like yeah it's pretty

1:16yeah I know audible and now you've had a lot of good barrels out here

1:21I remember one hate distinctly that we had together and it's a three-man hey

1:24there with with Jack yeah and yeah and it was big was that I 10 feet and the

1:28first one just popped up out of nowhere and you're like you're going on i think

1:32that the inside and whatnot and you took it and go to the important part 8 I

1:36don't know that a you remember that was a good day wasn't it was a really good

1:40but it wasn't like a full westworld had like really nice running from the top

1:44that's hard to tell me off because I didn't go the way now that's right it

1:48was that it was never let that it was a great idea got a couple yeah that was


1:54this one question that I want to ask Karen the first question that I've been

1:57kind of wondering about ever since um you got the job with the double yourself

2:01because when i lifted tour I guarantee thought you're going to be like they're

2:06going to go into like big wave likely the big white man yeah I Andorian and

2:11that why you were heading because you're already doing that when you're on to


2:15so I'm how do you feel about that and does the wsl the Commissioner job take

2:20up too much time to chase big schools or what's going on there

2:23yeah it's a good question i really like a sauna

2:27I'm not into the like 40 to 50 foot crazy stuff I just don't know that's you

2:32don't think so yeah but they're not really but i don't know if i wanted

2:35because actually probably would love it and then it would be good to be it's a

2:39weird one because I just love getting his love getting barreled you want like

2:43that really chunky deflectable to all off the wall color that's your spot

2:47that's what love i love that more than anything and like big surf I didn't

2:50haven't had a couple of funds funds available i mean it's been pretty solid

2:54but yeah I don't know I just didn't get the same thing out of it i'm sure your

2:58jaws and other places like that mean incredible i like you've been paddling

3:01on that yeah yeah guys going at more I could win are starting you know going

3:06through the career was more toast up on it was real big so this there wasn't

3:09that seen anyone else joining into the tower now I didn't ever really happened

3:13never told in big waves and never really just never had the passion to do that

3:16and yeah I'd probably hold off on field enough inhabit I'm gonna be better if i

3:22was gonna go your life in battle into it don't fit but i feel like i've

3:26identified be confident in you know like 4254 jaws or where you're going to get

3:31held down for too long and you know you got to review your collagen thing ya

3:36know where is it and how could this like up

3:40just give me accidental back door any day yea tall or whatever i'll be stuck

3:43there yeah a little be challenged

3:46I wouldn't mind it yeah how long have you been on the Commission and now it's

3:50been three or four ya three years ago year and a half now yeah he loved it i

3:55am i'm really enjoying it it's a look like a great job starting yeah it's


3:58there's a lot lot of really positive things that are happening within done so

4:03and just a good opportunity to do something I was passionate about as

4:06always because with doing the surface reppin for ages i was involved on that

4:10side of it yeah yeah he's trying to latest ratings yeah this is great and

4:14the new structure is just a little you know it's change things i think in the

4:16weather sports around yeah more opportunity to be involved in a positive


4:20cool yeah well i think the perfect man for that job but it's so obvious and his

4:25family life as Danielle and you've got toilet enjoy and Frankie Frankie and as

4:30like a great tell us that there was crazy

4:33yep so it touches into surfing he's a he's yeah he's getting the love for it

4:38it's gonna you know he's starting to get the bug because you can just go out

4:41there on his own and he paddled into the past and he does a little wave and yeah

4:45he started and Frankie's got a bit of a bug to really look guys it's wintertime

4:49so it's a little buggy it's not as easy now but yeah in summer sheer idiocy .

4:54yeah she gets up and does a little getting the data sets and she's pretty

4:59cool right she's 660 quick out

5:03yeah yeah well you gotta know the older this journal is like nine in there

5:07yes only six yeah and and um back to surfing like I'm when you're on to her

5:14you want the pipe masters actually you got a second yep and then you got first

5:18year after which was crazy like I don't know anyone's done that before

5:22now I'm and it was mostly backdoor those two events it was that the first year

5:28we're good second was real good back door but I just sort of small issues

5:31like super big it was sort of 5 for 16 foot

5:34yeah and then yeah with some nice and clean and it wasn't pumping that in the

5:38next year was it was probably was proper pumping except for the finals day I

5:42think it started getting smaller through the day so an internal accident right

5:45here there was a bit about the boat but it was more the day before was a hard

5:49position was like some of the best part of had indian they don't yeah yeah we

5:54did what had you feel like sharing the year like you got second your life

5:57that's as close as I'm ever gonna get

5:59that's what I feel like this horrible he was feeling ever

6:02oh no because you have priority pedal for a while yeah and then the next one

6:06Jeremy got right yep and I just really blow that because he you know had he

6:10wasn't really need the way that I paddle for known if I hadn't gone it he wasn't

6:15gonna get it always gotta be around here

6:17yeah just didn't really keep my eye on him don't recall having back out on the

6:20side was so he probably mighty mighty got to it wasn't gonna wait anyway I

6:24just got carried away with the moment

6:26like you know there's a minute to go better with their only meal just go yeah

6:30there's like not a minute and a half or something crazy and then yeah it was a

6:33bad pretty bad bad bad decision here for sure but I work out in the end it was a

6:40hard hard three to four months once the to kick back off again that next year

6:44was $YEAR i started dl started to just I just accepted it and moved on here and

6:48that kind of help but hear how hard is that when yep like we do it so much when

6:53were on tour and just make those same mistakes and just like and it's a

6:58two-out doesn't for like four ages until the next contest

7:01yeah until the next time and you keep thinking like yeah I'm not gonna do that

7:04again or that you do because kids like human nature you cannot afford to make

7:08the same mistake at some point again and then you kick yourself because I got it

7:12was nothing but said I would never do that again but it's all a learning

7:15Connor think I guess that you must have had a couple of hours that was a solid

7:19wood you remember what you won the motive don't need the most now I had

7:24Kelly side at that sign Dale and I want and it was back door and you know I'm

7:29not good at backdoor bet but I'm I had him and I was like sitting in the lineup

7:33like playing with my fingers cleaning my finger it's like just like yes we got in

7:37here right at the end

7:38paddling for a wave it back door yep and it was shit

7:43click there and Kelly 10.5 that's where she does r.kelly not as much now but i

7:49don't think there was a period in his career he's untouchable

7:51yeah it was like the magician at just getting that yeah that's cool you know

7:55the Georgia seconds of a hey Karen kind of thing crazy yeah uh-oh what do you

8:00what do you think about Kelly still on tour and you think I know I'm really

8:04nice but you know I mean he was so good and you know it certain spots he's still

8:09probably the man but I mean in general what do you think the kids are gonna

8:13take an IRA bit like yeah it's hard isn't it because this is incredible

8:18still looking when he left when he's on his I game is unbelievable and I think

8:23they're like you said the generation that's coming through that maybe don't

8:26care as much miss Kelly or they notice that that mental game that is

8:30you know that got people like your got make up the time i said i'm not so bad

8:35yeah that decisions just because it was Kelly yeah you know you don't want to

8:38you dont lose in hate and I had that if you have the upper hand just a slip but

8:42those got a hungry to win in there and it is a good a nice exercise the the

8:48breath of the tour now this is so many guys that are really good

8:50this so many guys it's half yeah it's not easy to win for anyone

8:54no absolutely this world title this is gonna be probably pretty exciting you

8:59know with Wilco and yea right now he doesn't need a result probably right

9:03here many still in the lead right but he probably needs a result

9:05yeah yeah i think a result you want to see ya there catching exactly i think he

9:10would be super Grover's confident yeah you know JB wasn't so good but he had a

9:14great result for AJ so i just got to think about that

9:16yeah it's going to this just don't worry about Jay yeah that's see that he was

9:19he's always been known as incredible out there anyway and you just those things


9:23yeah it's kind of the time to like go against the grain again record because

9:27yesterday was the time

9:28yeah sure no one had enough anyone expecting me at second and he proved

9:31everyone wrong I would i know is that enzyme in Sinai mean like shaper when

9:35and it's one of them could be spitting events because he's goofy and can ride

9:39the barrel don't like yeah he's charging hear that you probably wanna go was

9:43really wasn't that I've read hey up everyone's like if it's big one better

9:48well it will feel will get up

9:50that's a confidence thing for sure at this point in the year is pretty crucial

9:52lower body to go like em just on yeah there's plenty of time for everyone

9:56almost still guys that are like the back down in fourth have got time to do two

10:02wins in a row like he do this time of the year

10:04yeah and maybe they'd be in the right again they would official Fisher and the

10:09forecast that we've got watch it Waka many yeah that's what I was thinking too

10:14like he everyone's probably looking at that thinking this is going to change

10:17change my approach he or again because you know you come here you get you get

10:21ready for the jobs that it's fugly easternmost even their most dangerous

10:25and when you get here and it's looking like it's going to be four to six foot

10:28which is still incredible way for anything else in the world yeah it just

10:32it just pulls your standards didn't like you you just don't have that same fear

10:37yeah that you do

10:38it would be really interesting to see what happens i was on the same flight

10:41exam is kind of shot micro and macro I like the forecast because you know like

10:46they're really good guys the expert you know if it's not pumping like

10:49consistently that our favorite in but if it's not like that it'll probably favor

10:53will come because they can make mistakes and mistakes can happen easily in

10:56solutions like that it's alright for sure their hands together especially it

11:00seems like here on your forehand to when it's at smaller here and you can get

11:04that real you know you can get waving inside and moves more more technical

11:08kind of surfing back and a little harder when it's smaller hot little barrels are

11:11yet will still be interesting to say about this this world are you said and

11:16so like how has it been like I mean way back in the day what would have been

11:21worse but now it's like the dream turn there's only 11 events i'm in your back

11:24your how long I mean if you count these three years with all the user doesn't or

11:29how many years you think you've been until I mean they're traveling for her

11:32because I had a few years off on the qsu back in the middle of it yeah

11:36don't make us insert nani 697 20 20 years pretty much but the nine on the CT

11:43in here that makes them in the last three you know in the job and complain

11:48traveling and yeah and yeah so yeah so called a driving yeah yeah I'm it is a

11:54long time you never really take Daniel in the kids away i think that's being

11:58kind of good that that part of it you know I went into this jump into the role

12:02anyway I wanted to do ya want to do what I know was doing anyway on the tour will

12:07take them to as many as I couldn't have made sense

12:10yeah and then so they still come to those places we were going to what else

12:14could possibly yeah which is great yeah so some of the Australian leg and then

12:17you know then going into various j-bay yeah Kevin get because I didn't realize

12:22your schooldays which is greater then and then Europe yet trestles into Europe

12:27and yes and in hawaii at the end as I hope it gets like a three or four times

12:30in the year and so I was it would be too much I couldn't I couldn't do it wasn't

12:34doing yeah that much time away from the family

12:36yeah I wonder why like with you and like pots and now they've done the tool

12:39forever and yeah he's still doing there

12:41wow that if you get to take the family a time away from my arms

12:44yeah you're not getting sick of it just yet you'll be doing it for awhile i will

12:47yeah and it's like a i'll probably try to like I've been doing a little bit in

12:51the have some events where Travis said yeah it's not working for me and he's

12:55gonna get that feeling and going to some events to do the call girl because then

12:59the rest of our focus on some of the other stuff

13:01yeah you know my role and that's been that's being not known to be at every

13:05event in the year still at most you know nor hmm i think this year probably ten

13:10ok but I'm you know as time goes on and try and try to scale it back a little

13:15and focus on the rest of the stuff

13:17yeah and what is the rest of the stuff is wsl because they like I noticed

13:21they're like they've got the tier all the way from the big wave to order out

13:25to all the way down to like a junior connoisseurs in Japan yeah and I was it

13:30like a a junior pro and it was wsl yep

13:34so you got a little cabin yeah we're trying to kind of but it's I guess we've

13:37spent a lot of time because that was a lot of focus on the city hall change

13:41happen because right now it's like let's that career pathway so important news

13:45from juniors through the qos through them that if that's not right and we're

13:49not you know always looking at different ways to improve it and make it better

13:52for the surface and the fans men sport all just stagnate a little bit yeah

13:57that's the stuff that we want to know my team spends a lot of time trying to

13:59thinking you know ways to do things new approaches little tweaks here and there

14:03they can kind of help this kid that you know his dream is to be no jam you know

14:08how do you make that happen smoothly and make sure that the best talents getting

14:13to the city yeah that's like they're keeping out this in there absolutely in

14:16five years it might be for 10 years it won't be John John and thank you my

14:20little bit like anything newing yeah maybe it's okay okay yeah exactly yeah

14:24so yeah there we just want to make sure that those got those little kids I've

14:28still got the dream and they can stall you can still change it and we're we're

14:32fostering that town making it you know i'm going to develop it without being

14:35you know we're going to young because you have other sports do I think that's


14:39you know things so differently want to have a laugh and yeah finished hauling

14:43and that's ya and ya know that I'm there for balancing that stuff and trying to

14:48just try to look at all exciting changes for the sport you know formats and

14:51scheduling all that sort of stuff kind of that the resident judging i mean i

14:56working with Richie on changes in something yeah yeah and I'm talking

14:59about Japan and down and the Olympics mmm yeah that was big news always there

15:03when I was going to be an Olympian yeah which is kind of coincidental bear but

15:09you know I geez that how many people you know from a country are going to be in

15:15this sort of stuff with yeah we're gonna spend some time there were not like in

15:18the next year okay yeah we'll be we'll get with the Fernando eyesight and just

15:24and really trying to create a good time to think through all that again make

15:29sure that we're we're doing things is that you'll be working with the ISA yeah

15:32the I say and no ISA ISA yeah there's no identity as well yeah exactly the

15:36Federation because i heard that I'm there was only one of 20 people in yet

15:412020 I think it's so 40 total of forty totally get 40 total sony 20 min 20

15:46women are okay I guess dad and I would have probably would it be like two or

15:50three from each country would hope that it's yeah I mean we want to make sure

15:53that there's good representation remember flying every country yeah I say

15:56does as well so you know but also on our end you know from w cells and we're

16:01definitely want to i think it and for the importance of here

16:04surfing is how it develops further and and the chances it's got of being of

16:09growing in many as an Olympic sport no I think having the best surfers in the

16:13world is really crucial yeah so you know we really need a combination of both a

16:18good spread of representation but also the best surfers or no it's probably

16:22successful there's a couple free surface out there that'll be the best in order

16:25and probably maybe thinking tonight can I get in on that could be different for

16:29sure like there'll be some they'll be something that we have to work through

16:32with those guys about how people are getting getting qualified exactly yeah

16:35the system to to do it but yeah we close with every other sweeteners qualified

16:39you've got a qualified yeah you in some way there's got to be at there's a

16:42benchmark or there's some process you have to go through to get there you

16:44don't not everyone can just turn up so and we'll probably have a similar thing

16:48for surfing and the air it'll be exciting for you know I yeah that's so

16:54different so cool and Im

16:56you would be in a white flower on in the surf at the moment is saying ocean aj YC

17:01saying it in the ocean they're playing they're playing around the cheaper

17:04copyright yeah what they're talking about it

17:07yeah so see ya you have any guys now ideal time of year for it no you're

17:14right someone surge of july august for yeah that's it i'm in season two guiding

17:18out September's we had a time when I was just seriously though you scored like

17:223/4 YJ good waves and I'm has greater when it's about the winners at hand here

17:27yeah I'm they were like i was talking to some definite guys and they like really

17:32clean to have a CT back there to be able if there was one before that

17:36yeah when pigs yeah put some focus on back there yeah totally

17:41that's for sure and what I mean how much fun was it you went there I know it is

17:44to stand aside the right culture and they're so welcoming and we always seem

17:48to get way better than we did not

17:50yeah yeah this summer which is strange for you and you don't really think of it

17:54being that crazy so yeah they're nice but it just this mad about what

17:59awesome some of the best fans in the world their heart that you have to show

18:01that they saw our alarm yeah I think I won't keep you too long thank you good

18:06caring for coming down

18:08thanks Rocky last number four and I'm we're gonna have plenty more good people

18:13on the shadow i sat down I anyone can put that in the eggs get your girl got


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